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Wednesday, April 25th 2012

5:29 PM

Cafe Date Theory

"I knew what their rule was: Girls like this love it when guys buy them drinks. But David X had taught me better: Girls don't respect guys who buy them drinks. A true pickup artist knows never to buy meals, drinks or gifts for a girl who he hasn't slept with. Dating is for tools."

-Neil "Style" Strauss, "The Game", pp. 155

In the boiler room that is that is the modern day sexual marketplace (SMP), one of the most contentious topics of all, is who pays for dates and whether it's still a good idea for a guy to ante up when checking out a potential prospect. Much has been written about this topic, hence the quote above - and indeed, in certain contexts, it is indeed a good general rule to follow: unless you've slept with the gal already, do yourself a favor and don't supplicate. 

But since a wise Gamesman knows how to calibrate to whatever situation he finds himself in, he comes to understand when certain rules can be slightly relaxed or altered. Today's post is one such example.

I must say that this is a totally original creation on my part, formulated years before I ever even heard of such a thing as the Seduction Community; and I highly encourage my brothers to try this method out for yourselves and by all means, report back the results!

Here's the nub of it; first, a bit of the underlying philosophy of what I refer to as Cafe Date Theory, taken from a comment I posted at the venerable website, Very Smart Brothas:

"“Cafe Date Theory” operates precisely on this principle-what is the absolute minimum investment that I must make, the absolute minimum cost I must incur in the courtship process? My solution, which I've expounded on a bit last week here at VSB, is no more than the cost the average brotha pays for a haircut."

Last week I gave a more tactical breakdown of just what Cafe Date Theory is, and how it works; again, taken from a comment I submitted at VSB:

"As necessity is the mother of invention, long ago I came up with a solution to what Mr. Champ notes above with regard to fiduciary dating issues; I call it “Cafe Date Theory”.

This was a model I developed that accomplishes all the goals of a first meet after making first contact with the target in a way that is low risk for the guy, low pressure for the gal, and, in the event that things go south, allows both parties to walk away with dignity and honor.

First though, before I begin to break all this down, lets get something straight right now: going all in for a showy date before youve hit it is a massive DLV. Dating like that is for tools. Literally. There are women-many more than are willing to openly admit-who bank (pardon the pun) on simps to show them a nice time on their dime with absolutely not an after thought of putting out. Don't be a simp. H/T: Chuck

Now then, to CDT:

1. The idea is to plan a mini-date (which is actually a kind of pre-date interview with your Target) that allows you to assess various aspects of your Target in a low cost, low risk way. Ive found the best way to do this is within the context of a brief cafe date.

2. Most big cities have many cafe type settings; I recommend that you map out all of the ones near you, sample their wares and keep them on your shortlist of places to meet with your prospects. Oh, and avoid the big name chains like Starbucks etc-you want to create a feeling of uniqueness and intimacy-therefore, hit up the more indie/electic spots.

3. This strategy is low cost-I recommend spending no more than $20, the price most brothas spend for a visit to the barbershop. If things go south, you wont miss the loot.

4. Also, make sure you do the meet in broad daylight, the sunnier the better-if at all possible, sit outside. This adresses several things: you're meeting at a time of day most dont associate with sex; you're able to fully assess her goods since women are known to use shadow to cover their more unflattering features (think Blanche DuBois); and meeting in such an open, public space puts her at ease (and also protects you in case she's a headcase-always have witnesses).

5. Make the meet no more than 45 minutes long, preferably a half an hour. It doesnt take long for a man to decide if he wants to move forward with a woman or not; and 45 minutes is ample time for a woman to decide if she wants to move forward with you as well. Meeting over a couple of lattes at a hipster cafe in the early afternoon will reflect well on you, as well as keeping things deliciously brief. Men of importance always have things to do.

The great thing about cafe date theory, aside from the aforementioned, is that it is what I call "mission variable"; it can be tailored to suit the particularities of the situation. Say for example, you two hit it off right away; you can easily convert the cafe first meet into a more formal date, which also achieves the needed venue switching (and rapport/comfort building) and goes towards time on the clock (see “the seven hour rule” for more). I have field tested this many times and can vouchsafe its efficacy. Of course if, on the other hand, things go south, you can walk away not feeling like a chump."

In niteclub environments, which models of seduction like the Mystery Method was initially made for, it is best to go with the more standard operating procedures of not buying any drinks, etc. But in cases where you're running Day Game, and/or Online Game where you're meeting the Target for the first time in real time and so forth, Cafe Date Theory has proven itself to be highly effective. 

Again, I implore you to try this out, and report back the results!

Now adjourn your arses...

The Obsidian
32 comment(s).

Posted by Susan Walsh:

It sounds eminently reasonable to me Obs. I'm glad to see that it may be used to qualify the woman for a more formal date. Personally, I think it's classy if a guy picks up the check on a first date, but a woman should sincerely offer to share, and if the guy says no she should pay for the next date.

Same with drinks. I tell women that if they accept a drink, the guy has bought an audition for the duration of that drink, and if they like him they should get the next round.

BTW, is there are way to get follow up comments emailed?
Wednesday, April 25th 2012 @ 7:35 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

Hi Ms. Walsh,
Thanks again for stopping by; always a pleasure for you to do so!

As for having replies emailed...I honestly do not know, LOL. But I do know that you can subscribe to the O-Files, as well as get it in an RSS feed. Hope that helps!

Wednesday, April 25th 2012 @ 7:42 PM

Posted by ant:

You back finally. I have a question, can the cafe date theory only work at coffeeshops or at any establishment?
Thursday, April 26th 2012 @ 2:49 AM

Posted by Constance:

Comfortably, the read is totally the sweetest on this noteworthy topic. I harmonise with your conclusions and will continuously look forward to your next updates.
Thursday, April 26th 2012 @ 3:54 AM

Posted by Obsidian:

Thanks for coming by; its good to be back!

As to your query: excellent question. The idea behind cafe date theory is that you want to "qualify" the target-youre in essence, interviewing her for the position of being your girl. Since cafes are often used as meeting spots to conduct business, it flows very nicely into what is being done here. While it is certainly possible to do this in a bar/lounge etc, ive found that proceeding along the lines ive laidout tends to set the proper tone for things to proceed-assuming of course, that youre in the market for something a bit more than a one night stand.

Ill have more to say on all this in the coming days so stay tuned!

Thursday, April 26th 2012 @ 5:48 AM

Posted by Obsidian:

Hey man, glad to see ya! Thanks for continuing to stop by; ive always enjoyed our exchanges, sparks and all. ;)

As to your question: no, i hadnt heard anything about this; would you mind posting up links and a it of background on each so that i and my readers can study up more on what youre referring to? This sounds like something definitely worth investigating. Thanks!

Saturday, April 28th 2012 @ 7:30 AM

Posted by doclove:

Obsidian, it's good to see you back. I don't know what the cafe scene is like in Philedelphia where you're from. Stand alone cafes may be easy to find still. Here in Chicago, my hometown, they have become harder to find. They were impossible to find in Savannah, Georgia when I was living there because I was posted in an U.S. Army installation in the area. Stnad alone restaurant cafes competing against the restaurant chains of Denny's or International House of Pancakes are much easier to find. I don't think you mean these as they are still restaurants, and you don't want to run the risk of feeding her any meal if my take on what you're saying is correct. If this is the case, try the chains of Carribou Coffee, Seattle's Best or Starbuck's but not Dunkin Donuts for as much as I like DD's bagels and coffee would be my suggestion. If you have better ideas, let me know.
Saturday, April 28th 2012 @ 2:18 PM

Posted by Höllenhund:

Start here, Obs:




Check out Brendan's comments here:

Sunday, April 29th 2012 @ 5:54 AM

Posted by Obsidian:

Hey man glad to see ya back! Yea, your particular situation demands that you modify cdt a bit; in that case, a major chain cafe aint bad. Id avoid the ihop spots-dont wanna give the gal the wrong impression (that shes gonna get a meal or something)...

Oh, and ive been meaning to make a post out some previous comments you made here last year, that i found to be quite interesting. So stay tuned!

Sunday, April 29th 2012 @ 8:20 AM

Posted by Höllenhund:

More on the same issue:


Monday, April 30th 2012 @ 2:59 AM

Posted by Höllenhund:


Monday, April 30th 2012 @ 3:38 AM

Posted by Obsidian:

Thanks again for the links! Ive begun reading a bit of them and i think i get where youre coming from. Ill withold my impressions until ive had the chance to review all youve presented, thought it over, and have come back to write a bit about it.

In the meantime though im curious as to your thoughts on the current topic? What do you think of cafe date theory?

Do tell!

Monday, April 30th 2012 @ 8:59 AM

Posted by African Mami:

I cannot believe that I am actually agreeing with you. I LOVE this!!! Simple and to the point of getting to know whether or not, you are interested!!!!!:)o:)
Monday, April 30th 2012 @ 4:29 PM

Posted by dragnet:

Welcome back, Obs.
Friday, May 4th 2012 @ 2:39 PM

Posted by Too Tall Jones:

The Cafe Model is a good one. But here's a question- if $20 is your limit, what if you can get say a nice veggie wrap for two at some cool bistro for under $20? That is still under the $20 budget, and it is inexpensive. I see lunch specials like this where I am- meat or veggie wrap- drink- for two- no tip needed- $18 and change. I think this would work just as well as the coffee only approach.

Wednesday, May 16th 2012 @ 2:07 PM

Posted by Obsidian:


Hey man! Good seeing you. Yea, I don't have any problem with that - whatever works, use it.

Wednesday, May 16th 2012 @ 7:47 PM

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