Middle class Black men still have more swag than White dudes. And stronger pheromones to boot!

@"Pheroswag" aka BAG LADY:
*Sigh* Doesn't this sock puppeting thing get tired for you? I mean really, this kind of stuff played out back in highschool...

O.

I think the observation that a good portion of middle class black men lack swag is completely valid. As a college educated white male attracted to black women in the South, I have had to develop my game to compensate for the fact that most black girls won't date me. Something else I observe is that black men lose game when they start going after white women because they no longer need it as much to game them.

Just some observations. Feel free to respond to disagree, or add to my comments.

Something else I observe is that black men lose game when they start going after white women because they no longer need it as much to game them.

I don't think black men lose game per se by going with white women. They need less game if the white women they are targeting are the low-end, unattractive chunkettes. Sure. Many such women would jump at any male attention. However, if they white women targeted are the good lookers, then the competition is extremely fierce. By and large, such premium white women have little interest in black men, save for those who themselves are premium black men- with a lot of resources, accomplishments and background. This is why OJ got Nicole. A looker like Nicole had a wide range of picks, and very likely would not have gone with Rufus da janitor.

Despite all the "Mandingo" fantasies spun in the soft/hard porn media, there really is a very limited market for non-premium black men. The blunt reality is shown on the marriage and dating markets. In real life, and on online dating sites, 95% of the white women specify that they want a white man, with some exceptions made for Hispanics. Black men are last on the list. Why on earth would most white women want Tyrone from the hood who always broke? Black women themselves are skeptical of the "Tyrones." WHy on earth would white women be any different, especially when they have better prospects among their own people? We might as well be blunt about it. Are there exceptions? Sure. But then above is the general rule. So I would say, to the contrary, that black dudes who want to hit the higher-end to high-medium white female markets, NEED EVEN MORE game than the average white guy who has a built-in advantage, simply by being white. Note- I said the higher-end/high medium white women.


I think the observation that a good portion of middle class black men lack swag is completely valid.

I disagree with that. Many middle class black dudes can turn it on when they have to.

continued .............

In fact, this is one of the factors working in favor of middle-class black men when they work the interracial market. THeir middle class status enables them to somewhat overcome the negative stereotypes about black men- uneducated, unstable and broke. Using that advantage, they can then turn on the "black thing" or swagger in a number of ways to aid in seduction of targeted white gurls. SOmetimes it is done with humor. SOmetimes it is done with shrewd psychological manipulation - - complementing a white girl for example on how well she looks with a light tan, or remarking on how unusual he finds her blond hair or blue eyes. This kind of talk has an effect, massaging the female imagination much more than a routine complement by yet another routine white guy. They can play on white female interracial fantasies, while at the same time presenting the assurance of middle class status. Does it work on ALL white targets? Of course not. But it can gain some ground, as numerous middle class black dudes can attest. Far from black middle class dudes lacking swag, I would argue to the contrary- they can apply a double-barrelled blast: using their middle class status to break down the negative barriers and get a foot in the door, then applying swag to weave a web of seduction, playing on the race angle in unusual or humorous ways. It works.

The same general pattern applies with black women. While the need to manipulate racial-sexual attractions and tensions are not involved, a middle class black man can turn on the swag when he needs to with black women. Indeed, he has greater scope for swag. He can use his education to better manipulate his female target - hit them with "hood talk" one moment, the next, hit them with a poetry selection from Claude McKay, or a quote from Dubois, demonstrating he can cover both "the street" and "the suite." In fact, the Professor, notes just that, when she talks about the middle class men "behaving badly" which she

which she seems to define as reluctance to commit, because they have so many choices. These many have the amount of choice they do in part, because of the scope they have for playing multiple targets. The notion that middle class black men are boring, nerdy Steve Urkel types is completely wrong, with little basis in the real world.

correction- notion that "ALL" middle class black men are boring, nerdy Steve Urkel types i

"The notion that middle class black men are boring, nerdy Steve Urkel types is completely wrong, with little basis in the real world. "

I didn't say that, nor did my language imply that. Thats why I said "A good portion of middle class black men lack game." And, I didn't really mention the reason as to why I believe that. A mans game is directly proportional to the type of girl he can get. With that said, it baffles me that as a white guy with social stigma working against him, I can get a hot black girl, but yet alot of these college educated brothas end up with mediocre white women. That was why I made that observation.

Cam, why do you say "end up with mediocre women"? Maybe these men actually LIKE the women they are with. There is more to a human being than looks, you know. Not all men go only for looks. Many men have priorities like character, behaviour, intelligence, kindness, etc. Maybe these women are higher in these qualities than your "hot black girl".

With that said, it baffles me that as a white guy with social stigma working against him, I can get a hot black girl, but yet alot of these college educated brothas end up with mediocre white women. That was why I made that observation.

We only have your word for it, but fair enough. "Beyonce class" or hot "Tony Braxton class" or "Sasha Shelton class" black women are in high demand and have no shortage of premium men chasing them. It is doubtful they are settling for mere "game." The lucky winners usually have substantial financial, professional or celebrity assets brought to the table. Let's face it- Beyonce ain't going with Raheem from the mailroom, no matter how much "game" he got.

Some critics argue that lot of the game bragging out there seems to be based on what the psychologists call "selection bias." That is, the targeted girls are a select population that already are going out of their way to be picked up and entertained by men looking for such girls. What happens is not so much PUA success as like-minded people going thru the motions. The women are out there looking to be picked up. They have already self-selected themselves as potential targets. Someone will be allowed to pick them up, sooner or later before the night ends, whether the guy has game or not. Is it game creating the opportunities, or simply self-selection by women who would be available anyway, game or no game?

Example would be girls in a bar trolling for guys who will buy them drinks or dinner. Is it "game" bringing the success or the fact that the woman will inevitably befriend SOMEONE that night. The lucky someone's success may not at all be due to his game talk but mere willingness to pony up for drinks.

At other times, the ladies will simply pay attention to the least objectionable jerk (the LOJ) out of a bunch of non-descript men.

ANother example might be bored women who want some kind of attention for the moment. They will talk with anybody just to get the atte

attention. Is it game making them receptive or just a desire for temporary attention, after which they go thru the motions later, complete with bogus phone numbers?

Aint saying the selection bias theory is true just throwing it out there. How would you respond?

"Cam, why do you say "end up with mediocre women"? Maybe these men actually LIKE the women they are with. There is more to a human being than looks, you know. Not all men go only for looks. Many men have priorities like character, behaviour, intelligence, kindness, etc. Maybe these women are higher in these qualities than your 'hot black girl'."

I say "mediocre" because the white women that a lot of brothas end up with are just that. They have plane jane features, little to no ass, and generally aren't prizes in any sense of the word. Apart from looks, they lack in the smarts and financial security aspect as well. I don't think I have ever seen a Scarlett Johansson type with a black male.

And, the black women I tend to go after usually have something more to offer me in the way of looks. The girl I'm currently with is financially stable already (I'm in my last year of college, so she has more than I do). She has a pleasant, feminine personality to boot.

I don't doubt that the majority of these men like the women they are with. It just appears to me that with their education and physical shape they could do better.

@ Too Tall Jones.

I would argue that most women would settle for mere game. Looks really don't seem to affect males when it comes to getting hot women. Same for money. Some of the most broke-ass dudes can get their ladies to pay for everything if they have the right game. You don't have to have huge financial prospects or be famous, you just have to have good game and give them good dick. It probably pays not to be completely broke, but it certainly doesn't hurt you if your game is top notch. Charisma and confidence works wonders.

I would agree most women would temporarily settle for mere game, depending on circumstances. But then those would be the second tier women not the Sasha Shelton class babes. On the plain Jane white girls I disagree. I know some middle class brothas who have it hooked up with nice looking vanila sweetness. Black athletes, professionals and entrepreneurs who are doing well have much less problems on the premium market, than say a regular joe black schoolteacher. But both white and black men, indeed all men have a universal issue to deal with. The "top tier" lookers are a small percentage of all women, whether in Africa, China or America. Most white women themselves are plain janes, and are not in the Scarlett Johansson class, just as most black women are not in the Sasha Shelton class. Most white guys will not get anything like Scaret Johanasson, nor will they get anything like Sasha Shelton. 90% of white guys will end up with plain jane white chicks. Same with black dudes. In short, everybody has to "settle" for the plain janers, across all groups. It is just the reality of human population percentages. Within that reality, I would agree that charisma and confidence can definitely help.

"I say "mediocre" because the white women that a lot of brothas end up with are just that. They have plane jane features, little to no ass, and generally aren't prizes in any sense of the word. Apart from looks, they lack in the smarts and financial security aspect as well."

You would have no way of knowing if they lack in smarts and finances just by looking at them. If you are talking about people you know personally, fine. But just seeing random couples out and about - nope, you have no way of telling about the grey matter behind their foreheads. Besides, most Black men are not all that to look at facewise anyway. Plain Joes at best.

@ Too Tall Jones

I suppose we will just have to disagree with one another. In my experiences, game has gotten me quite a lot in the sense of the type of women I can date. I have never had to settle for a plane jane female, nor should anyone else just settle.

Settling is bad, because becoming complacent with ones lot in life stops you from actually improving yourself. Saying that percentages and statistics work against you in the dating market, so what? They might indeed work against you. You can walk uphill on a steep incline, can't you? It makes it harder, but it doesn't make it impossible. That sort of self-defeating attitude is why men end up with mediocre, ugly women with poor attitudes. "Oh, I can't do any better." "Oh, woe is me. Guess I have to settle for an ugly one with a fucked up personality." Saying that statistics work against you is just making excuses and being self- defeating. If you want a hot bitch, go out and look for one. Walk up and talk to her. You have nothing to lose. Just don't feed me that crap of statistics working against you, because while they indeed may, it doesn't make the task of getting a hot girl insurmountable.

I set my goals as to what I want. I disregard how hard it might be to reach that goal. That doesn't matter. I have an iron will and I will never let something like statistics or someone tell me what I can't have. That isn't anyones right. I make my own future and I don't sit on my ass and feel sorry for myself and tell me it can't happen. That is a poor attitude to have.

The same uphill-but-not-impossible-go-getting-skies-the-limit-can-do attitude that you promote is probably the very same attitude those "plain janes" with good-looking brothas you talked about earlier utilized in getting the men they want.

If a mediocre white dude can get a "hot black chick" then there's no reason why a mediocre white woman can't get her a "hot brotha". Settling sucks.
;)

"If a mediocre white dude can get a "hot black chick" then there's no reason why a mediocre white woman can't get her a "hot brotha". Settling sucks. ;)"

Okay, so I just double-checked my last few posts to see if I actually referred to myself as mediocre. Nice try, because I didn't. I was using a generality. I myself am far from a mediocre white guy by either looks, education, or game. The only thing working against me is social stigma. I'm far from mediocre.

"With that said, it baffles me that as a white guy with social stigma working against him, I can get a hot black girl, but yet alot of these college educated brothas end up with mediocre white women."

Get in where you fit in. If black women don't want college educated black men, because of lack of "game" or whatever else stupid reason, then white women are more than happy to pick up the slack!

:)

"With that said, it baffles me that as a white guy with social stigma working against him, I can get a hot black girl, but yet alot of these college educated brothas end up with mediocre white women."

Cam, you said that you had social stigma working against you, what did you mean by that?
When it comes to black female/white male relationships there is hardly any stigma that comes from the black community. If anything the stigma comes from the white community.

@ Airforceguy

In the context of the black community, I encounter a lot of social stigma from black girls who are reluctant to date and talk to me. I don't fit the stereotype of the type of male that would be interested in them. Hence, most of them have this "Who the hell is this guy?" attitude when I talk to them. If they give me more than a couple of minutes of conversation, I can usually break past that barrier.

The truth of the matter is that the majority of black women are still more comfortable dating within their race than dating out. Even the white-washed ones at the college level still gravitate to their own race when considering whom to date. The "social stigma" that I observe is the reluctance for a black woman to consider me. "Okay, he is physically fit, attractive, has good career prospects, and I like to talk to him, but..... he is still White." That type of mentality. Because we don't live in a colorblind society, we live in a ethnocentric society, some people view and treat others different based on their race. That is the "stigma" I am referring to.

In the American south particularly, old racial tensions remain. They are often unspoken, unless behind closed doors, but they still permeate the society and culture. Since this is where I am from, this is the culture I am speaking of.

@Cam, I agree with you in that respect. Having grown up in the South myself, Georgia, I see this first hand. In my hometown of Columbus, black/white relationships whether black male/white female or vice versa are still not that common as in other parts of the country. In fact in some parts of South Georgia they still have segregated proms. Like you said some old habits die hard.

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I see more b/w interracial couples in the South than I ever did in the North.

I haven't been here for a minute, but I decided to stop by over here and drop some dimes on Game. I've basically simplified game to showing how valuable you are to a woman. The reason why middle class black guys have issues dealing with women, is because they don't have any way of establishing value, compared to their hood counterparts.

In the hood, life is dangerous, so a lot of guys early on start learning that in order to get a girl, you have to make her feel like you'll protect her, and she has to feel that vibe. So low and behold, women in the hood are giving up ass as early as 10 years old, because the value being thrown at them is strong, and when these boys grow up and become men, they're like Spartans and they've developed enough game where they even high level white women want to have sex with them. The reason why they don't is because, high level women, is because outside the hood, women value intelligence a lot more. Thus don't get it wrong, white women on a natural level want to have sex with hood dudes, they're just turned off by their ignorance. However if given the opportunity, a lot of them will try to make their beta male lover into a cougar, so they can get intelligence from him, and get their sexual needs satisfied by Mr. Ghetto Fab.

Middle class black dudes have to compete with hood black dudes, who have a lot of sexual energy game, but not much intelligence. So when women meet these kind of black guys they're hoping he has some of that raw game he gets from growing up in the hood. But if you're a middle class black guy it's unlikely you have all of that. This is why game is crucial for middle class black guys, because not only are they expected to be intelligent, but they're also expected to be like Spartans, that's a lot of pressure. If anything, I would say they're under more pressure than white men are in that regards.

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