90% of the time Dragnet is money (and that is lowballing it)...

I am completely good with whoever Women choose to allow into their bed. I just want them to take full responsibility for it, whatever that may be.

Not cannot be overstressed, I think alot of men in the manosphere share this view...

It annoys me how when men like younger fertile women it is a problem (for the older women, of course), but cad/thug/alpha chasing doesn't get the same outrage...

And when those women were in their twenties, I believe most of them had a great time leveraging their s*xual power, why is a problem when (BLACK) men do it also... (This post demonstrates how BW view what BM as less than equals in general)

These spinster did it to themselves, and non-black men in aggregate will not come to their rescue...

I hope they have saved their money for retirement...

Here's one white man's view of Richard Banks book, Is Marriage For White People at Amazon.com. Here's "Abraham's" post:

Read it in 2 days, book was interesting but I walked away largely unimpressed, September 30, 2011
By
Abraham (California) – See all my reviews
This review is from: Is Marriage for White People?: How the African American Marriage Decline Affects Everyone (Hardcover)
This book makes for an interesting read, but is kind of tilted towards unrealistic absurdity (wishful thinking, maybe?) in some ways. First off, I am a white man and though I am not a racist, I am not typically attracted to black women for the purpose of forming intimate relationships. Furthermore, most if not all of the white men that I know are not either, for varying reasons. So, to keep it short and sweet and to add some realistic balance, I am saying this to say: WHITE MEN ARE NOT THE ANSWER FOR BLACK WOMEN. And I’m absolutely certain that black women should not look to white men to “rescue” them, as it seems this book suggests that they should do. Again, I’m not racist, I am just being honest.

More from Abraham at Amazon.com:

In reply to an earlier post on Sep 30, 2011 4:21:58 PM PDT
Abraham says:
Man’s Greatest Treasure – Don’t get upset because overwhelmingly most white men don’t desire black women, okay? If they did, there would have been many more black female/white male marriages and unions in America before slavery, during slavery, and after slavery. White men have always had the power to do that, but CHOSE not to, even though they often slept with black women who at times may have relented voluntarily but most of it was involuntarily (rape). If many white men desired black wives, there would be massive amounts of white male/black female unions all over Africa, Brazil, Canada, Europe, America, etc., but there are NOT and NEVER HAVE BEEN. And stop (obviously) wishing so hard that this wasn’t the case; it’s not a good impression for you or

Brazil, Canada, Europe, America, etc., but there are NOT and NEVER HAVE BEEN. And stop (obviously) wishing so hard that this wasn’t the case; it’s not a good impression for you or your people to do that, after all that you have been through all over the world at the hands of white males. I’m just speaking the truth and I’m not racist; I’m Jewish, so I would not dare discriminate on the basis of race alone because that is sheer ignorant. I abhor white supremacists just as much as any black person and I do work in the black community, voluntarily, all the time. My comments were my opinions, and they happen to be shared by most white men. Obviously. Sorry if they don’t fit into your pipe dream.

Last edited by the author on Oct 1, 2011 9:48:10 AM PDT
Abraham says:
The same MAY or MAY NOT be true for white women, because it is white MEN that have kept them from black men, for the most part. It is white MEN that have institutionalized racism and white supremacy, NOT white women; women are not generally responsible for instigating wars, conquests, institutional racism, class-ism, the founding of nations, slavery, the wiping out of peoples, etc etc etc. Yes, they have to mainly “follow suit” with their men in their society because they have no other choice. The same is true for ALL women of the world. Ha, perfect example of what I am talking about: It has been revealed that even Sarah Palin, the extreme right-winger, has secret longings for a black man, but she would probably NEVER admit it publicly because of….you guessed it……white MEN. I personally think that she is just one of many; only a relative few have the guts to OPENLY do it regardless. Have you watched that special that Morgan Freeman did about the still segregated proms at certain schools in the Deep South? After his investigation was concluded on WHY the proms were still segregated, it was discovered that it was because WHITE MEN did not want their DAUGHTERS in a close romantic sexua

WHITE MEN did not want their DAUGHTERS in a close romantic sexually charged environment with black MALES. Even their daughters said that they were told that by their FATHERS all of their life. During slavery, the WORST punishment would come to a black male if he did something with a white woman, but there was no punishment for white men who had sex with black WOMEN. I could go on and on, but I think I made my point…..

Jon, you sound crazy and delusional. There ARE collective perspectives, son.

TruBlu, anything/any position can be justified with words; but REALITY tells the real story and truth needs no justification to BE.

And just to give you a REALITY check: “QUEENS don’t rule ANYTHING. They are SURROUNDED by MEN who are far more dangerous (and powerful) than they”. And before you say I am a male chauvinist, these are not my words, they are the words of Queen Elizabeth I.

This is just the beginning. Richard’s book insults people in general and Black people in particular. I read his book and it’s Black people bashing central, Black men in particular. His solution really doesn’t include other men of Color, although he used them as afterthoughts, not solutions. The main solution according to him, is for professional Black women to marry White men and to shut up about race. That fits in with racist conservatives who don’t like Black people and only want them pacified by pipe dream solutions.

As for the solution of having Black women pairing up with white men, it’s not happening because of history, the reality of such parings(ask Halle Berry, Debra Dickenson, Prince Albert’s baby mama Nicole Coste), wm don’t want to give up white privilege and power, and current racial sitiuation in America(please spare me that post-racial crap).

La Reyna

I think it there are many issues which would have to be untangled here. I do think more black women should open themselves up to interracial dating. It costs them nothing, and if white/asian/hispanic men et al aren't interested, it is easy enough to find out. The upswing in numbers of black women dating does suggest that there is an untapped market out there, for the ones who want to take advantage of it.
Black women can and do influence brothas, and the other way around of course. But the problem is in the black community at least, that black men have the numbers on their side. Black women are "weak bidders", against a relatively scarce commodity, black men. Some some can hold out for the PhD brotha, but chances are some other woman is going to get the non-degreed guy, and she ends alone. Even if every black women went on strike now, it takes about seven years or so to get a PhD. And after that there still wouldn't be enough enough of those guys to meet demand. Having some women go elsewhere, reducing the number of bidders, strengthens the hands of the bidders that are left. At that point, being in a better market position, more conditions could be put about. But first you either have to have more "product" or less bidders.

Just wanted to let you know I'm reading along, O. You already know my take on the issue. I say BWE's should date whomever they want. Of whatever race they want.

I just don't like the insistence on running down black men or the disingenuous way they pretend there are no good black men. I have largely given up the dialogue because I'm tired of being told that my experience is so exceptional and that landing my husband basically equates to my finding the elusive unicorn.

And never any discussion on the issue of who was largely responsible for the raising of the current crop of black men 30 and under either. Just whine, blame, vent. If they would just go get their white knights in shining armor and cease from denigrating black men I wouldn't care about it at all.

"NOT white women; women are not generally responsible for instigating wars, conquests, institutional racism, class-ism, the founding of nations, slavery, the wiping out of peoples, etc etc etc. Yes, they have to mainly “follow suit” with their men in their society because they have no other choice. The same is true for ALL women of the world."

That's nuts. American women have been way to active to be considered automatons. I consider the attack on families serious business especially in the black community and gender is a not an excuse. Extreme charitability and certain perspective of childishness and submission by women. Seems a bit self-serving considering the alternate langage women have been spewing.

"But the problem is in the black community at least, that black men have the numbers on their side."

How rare is it ever to hear that. Every part of getting here was a negative for men UNTIL it effected women. NOW it's some diabolical S&M plot whereby black men get here by suffering. GENIUSES WE ARE NOW.

Women have not been automatons at all. Actually pretty loud about it.
Except in LaReynas world. Women aren't accountable so blame can never be affixed even while there active. Must be nice. There's no MORAL after that.
That's what happened to black women and most western women,

Moral diplomatic immunity.

@deery:
Hi deery long time no hear! How are you? Now because i know you hav e a tendency to go off on tangents please allow me to ask you:

Have you listened to the interview banks did w/peterson per my original post? Its widely available on itunes.

And

Did you see what i said about singapore? If so how does that jibe w/what you and banks are talking about above? What evidence can you provide that such a scheme will fare better that singapore? Please explain?

Thanks!

O.

I must admit that I'm very surprised to see my comments turned into a post---glad I could spark a worthwhile discussion though.

I tend to lean toward Terri's viewpoint: that black women can date whoever they want, but the BWE crowd needs to stop the lies, hypocrisy and denigration of black men. My comments never said anything against black women dating white men, only the hyprocrisy that drips from people like Banks and the BWE-ers.

Interesting post about interracial marriage. I would like to call attention to the point about Black women usually marrying White men. I went back to the original paper cited, and apparently Black women are 2/3rds more likely to marry a White man with a HS degree to less as opposed to a White man with some sort of higher education. (For comparison, the odds that a White woman that a Black man marries has a higher education of some sort or not is 50/50.)

To play devil's advocate though, Black women who marry outside of their race tend to do so within their social circle. In my experience, Black women tend to associate only within Black social circles, and the White men who do hang around such circles tend to be poorer than average. The original paper also hinted as such a conclusion. I think that Black women are rationalizing decisions that they would have made anyway, for good or for ill. Pretending that it's some sort of strategy for getting Black men to act right is foolish. Also, for what it's worth, in my experience, Black women who marry White men of means tend to associate exclusively with elite White social circles. Simply put few women of *any* race gets access to these men unless they have a lot to offer.

I've read your comments regarding Singapore. It is interesting, but hardly the reality in the U.S. In fact, the more education a woman has, the more likely she is to get married, and even more importantly, stay married. This is true for both black women and white women. I don't know what the case is in the Asian countries, or Singapore specifically, but I know the smartest are encouraged to get together and breed.

I think more black men should get an education, not because it would make them better romantic partners, but better able to navigate society in general. Once upon a time we thought education was an objective good. Now we seem more concerned over whether it can get a guy some booty or not, and blaming women because a guy is too lay to get educated for himself, and his own concerns.

"Now we seem more concerned over whether it can get a guy some booty or not, and blaming women because a guy is too lay to get educated for himself, and his own concerns."

They should be blamed. It's one of the reasons the country is so broke. Next time pay for yourselves like the men you denigrate have too. Lazy-Ass black women.

Wait until that "Education" debt hits as it is currently.

Dorsey,

That quote, "NOT white women; women are not generally responsible for instigating wars, conquests, institutional racism, class-ism...", wasn't from me. It's from Abraham from California who wrote the review at Amazon.com.

Sorry for not mentioning his name on the subsequential posts.

The point is that the vast majority of White men aren't gunning for Black women in general, BWE in particular. That a hard pill for them(BWE) to swallow.

Again, I apologize.

La Reyna

@deery:
I see your penchant for not following instructions is alive and well! Gotta give you at least some credit though: you did answer the second question but neglected to respond to the first. Lets try this again:

Deery have you listened to the interview prof ralph richard banks did w/rev jesse lee peterson on the latters radio show? If your answer is no you cant really participate in this discussion because my points wrt singapore directly relate to points raised in the aforementioned interview and made by banks himself. Yes i fully intend to show both you and him where youre both all wet.

So...you were saying?

O.

@deery:
As per usual your comments are nonsensical non-sequiturs and red herrings. First off the vast majority of people in the usa and that includes both black men and women dont have college degrees; are you seriously making the case that these people cant "navigate" modern day american society?

Come on.

Second no one here is or has blamed black women for black men being "lazy" wrt college degree attainment; what has been said here is that black women as gatekeepers of the smp do in fact have a considerable degree of influence over black men giving clear signals as to which traits they select for in men. What has been suggested here is that if more black women changed their selection criteria black men would be likely to follow suit.

The irony in this is that until the banks/bwe option is broached black women enmasse rejected such a proposal on the grounds that it placed an undue burden of responsibility of reforming black men on them. But when its suggested that black women get w/white men all of a sudden reforming black men is a great idea. The sheer hypocrisy of it all would be one hella kneeslapper if it werent so serious...

O.

@todd:
Welcome aboard/welcome back! Thanks for taking the time out. However i must point out here that the issue isnt ir marriage(s) per se but a whole range of things that ive only begun to hint at. Over the course of this week i should like to flesh all of this out so stick around the partys just getting started!

O.

@dragnet:
Duly noted! Point well taken. I just thought it would be a good idea to feature the voice of a person who is widely talked about but rarely talked to. Ill be addressing this point in greater detail very soon so stick around! In the meantime though by all means feel free to speak your mind-this is your post after all...

O.

IAWTP.

But, if I've said this once, I've said it a thousand times: if I had to focus on AA women for relationships, I'd be a 33-year old virgin. To this day, I still haven't dated/slept with an AA woman. West Indians, yes. Africans, a couple. African-Americans, *none*. Even when I lived in the rural South, it was easier to find a Trini woman for Sunday brunches than a standard AA woman. How embarrassing is that?
Even when I lived in Germany, the standards were maintained. I had rank, I had extra pay, I had my own apartment and a nice car, but AA enlisted women would rather pine over the "cool cats" and get P&D by them than give me a shot. Again, I actually found a Trinidadian, active-duty enlisted woman in the US military to date, before I could find one of those many "All I need in my life is a good maaaayyn!"-claiming AA sistas (I met *female AA officers* who were more willing to date me than AA women at my rank.) In Germany, a place where white people have been known to literally *stalk* black people to enter into a relationship, they would rather wait for the cool guys to stop fucking white girls and "come home", than date me (barring the 35+ crowd, of course, who were out of my league by military regulations and therefore might as well had been on the moon.)

Understand this. There are pitfalls when Black women decides to go outside of the race for love and companionship. Here's the lowdown from Shawn James:

The Media has been telling Black Women there has been a shortage of eligible Black men for the past two decades. And now it’s telling desperate Sistas to get involved with White Men. Sistas see Movies like Something New, and actresses like Paula Patton and Halle Berry in relationships with White men and think there are so many benefits to pursuing interracial romance. Unfortunately, many Black Women don’t count the costs before getting involved in Something New and can wind up involved in a relationship that’s something terrible.

Before Sistas begin pursuing romance with a White man they need to:


Understand White Privelege. In America a White Male is considered supreme. This means he can go and do as he pleases with impunity, and has the advantage of going back to White society and being accepted with the full benefits that come with being a White male. And a White Man who gets involved with a Black woman gets a ton of benefits for doing so. For one, he can say to the world “He’s not a racist, because he dated a Black woman.” He can go to his friends and present himself as tolerant and liberal, while not confronting the racism he benefits from every day.


But after his relationship with a Black woman ends this White Man can also go back to his community and pursue and marry a White female. Meanwhile the Black woman who pursues this White man is seen as a sellout and damaged goods by the Black community and is made into a pariah no one wants to be involved with.


Understand you may just be an experiment. Sistas who pursue White Men must understand that some White dudes just want to see what being with a Black woman is like. While a sista may be investing her emotions in a relationship with a White Man, The relationship for him may be novelty, like an exotic fruit or a fancy Italian sports car. Something they’d like to try, but no one they’d commit to. A fling.
Remember Due to the reflexive properties of White Privilege, A White male who pursues a Black woman will do so just so they can prove “They aren’t racist.”

Understand he may just want the draws. Sistas must also understand that some White men also want to find out what sex is like with a Black Woman. Some White males will wine and dine a sista just to get her into bed, and get those two notches in his belt. The one that says “He’s not racist,” and the other that says he bagged a black chick.


Since the Antebellum South interracial sex has been a taboo many curious White Men have wanted to explore. And the smooth operator White dudes are using this media propaganda to take advantage of desperate Black women who are eager to give up the panties gambling that it’ll lead to a long-term relationship.


Understand that he has nothing to lose. Sistas may invest their whole hearts in relationships with White men. But thanks to the institution of White privilege, a White man does not have anything serious to invest in a relationship. So while the sista is investing her heart time and emotions in a relationship, the White man may not be committing anything at all.

Read up on the case of Tonya Pinkins. In the 1990’s Tonya Pinkins played Livia Frye on ABC’s All My Children. She was Married to a millionaire White Man, and had two kids for him. By the mid-1990’s she filed to divorce her husband who made much more money than she did.


However the judge in New York, a liberal state, granted HIM sole custody of the children. The court then gave HIM all her assets including her home. By 1995, Pinkins was left bankrupt and wound up on public assistance for a while.


Sistas, understand that if a White man takes a Black woman to court in a divorce proceeding you may not have a leg to stand on. With the court system being made by White Males for White Males, he holds all the cards, and the judge will side with HIM, especially if the judge is a white male. The Precedent set by the Pinkins case spoke volumes about how
Black women were seen by the courts in interracial relationships.


Also understand that a pre-nup is NOT a legal document with any validity in court. The judge can just choose to just disregard a pre-nup and divide the assets in any way he or she sees fit. So a successful Black woman could possibly lose all her assets the same way Pinkins did.

Obsidian wrote:

hes saying that while younger they wasted a lot of that time going after cads instead of getting w/the more stable brothas around.

Yes. Women need to strike when their sexual stock is high (i.e. when they are between the ages of 18 and 2 . Most women don't figure out that they are on the clock until they are 30. It is a little late then to start thinking about marriage to a respectable guy.

Banks’ Negro Male Improvement Program Via “Something New” (NMIPVSN) has a major flaw, which I’m don’t think he has addressed (I haven’t read the book yet). If all of these diamonds in the rough black women were suddenly discovered by white men and courted/married by them, wouldn’t that free up an equal amount of white women for black men to court/marry/bang/stick/screw/whatever? I mean, black men wouldn’t have to up their game at all to get the same number of women, so the whole NMIPVSN thing would be a non-starter as far as changing black male behavior goes.

Great blog you people have maintained there, I totally appreciate the work.