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Saturday, April 2nd 2011

10:42 AM

On Dark Game/Sith Game

"Anger, fear, aggression - the Darkside are they."

- Yoda

Although I've mentioned it in passing a few times previously, after reading a few comments from my most recent post and taking yesterday out to meditate on things, I thought it would be a good time now to more fully flesh out what I and others refer to as the Dark side of Game - it IS real, and can be dangerous, not only to Women, but to the practitioner himself. In case anybody's missed my previous comments on the matter, here's what I said:

"In my own presentation of the Venusian Arts, I often make allusions to the famed Star Wars series of films, since many of its themes and concepts work very nicely to explain much of Game's underyling ideas. Just like the Force has its "Light" and "Dark" sides, so too does Game, and it is dependent upon the user as to which way he will go. In the community today, and down through the ages, there are those who have used the Seduction arts for good or ill; in the present day, I refer to those who use Game in its worst light as "Dark Game" or "Sith Game". Roissy in DC, is an excellent example of this. For lack of a better way of putting it, "Jedi Game" is the morally right way of deploying Game; indeed, it is a tenet of Game teaching, both in the hood and in the burbs, that true players "manage expectations". Lying to a Woman in order to get sexual favors from her under false pretenses, is an example of Sith Game."

- Obsidian's comments on a recent VSB post re: Game

"In Gamespeak, Dun Moch is basically Negs Gone Bad, used intentionally to bring a Woman low, and/or makes her question her self-worth and esteem in a pernicious way - for example, using sharper edged Negs on a sub-7 target, or using Negs in a way that attacks the target's personhood, such as her weight, physical or facial features, her race or ethnicity, and so forth. Other “dirty” tactics can be brought into play, too-just think of how a Gamesman can use Game in a negative, morally questionable way, and you have Dark Game. For example, flagrantly and blatantly lying to a target as to your true intentions with and for her, or attempting to use Game to seduce her best girlfriend into bed, or using Game to manipulate your target's emotions and feelings in a clearly abusive and morally unethical manner - all of these are examples and manifestations of what I refer to as Dark Game or Sith Game. It’s something that is both highly effective, but also very, very damaging, to the Target and the Gamesman both, because usually, this form of Game is quicker to learn and often doesn't put as much if any stress on being morally ethical in how one applies Game; indeed, quite the opposite, for a big part of this style is a kind of "ends justfying the means" mentality. This is the big problem with the "fast" or "speed" seduction schools of thought out there, operations and outfits that promise its would-be students that if they but only learnt their particular system, they too will be making out with Women in a matter of minutes and so forth. Assuming such schools of thought and practice were indeed successful along these lines, the lack of ethics training and the very nature of the enterprise itself is such that it can seduce, corrupt and lure the practitioner over to the Darkside of Game - where he begins to view Women not as full human beings in their own right, but merely as things to be manipulated; he begins to lose respect for them as human beings because of the way in which they succumb to his machinations; the quick and easy path he has taken leaves a lot of gaps in terms of ethics and morals, and the result is a Man who can potentially wind up filled with contempt and even hatred for Women, other people in general, society, and ultimately, himself. Men who wish to learn Game so they can exact "revenge" on a particular Woman who rejected him, or Women as a whole, are invariably practitioners of Dark or Sith Game, "hatefucking" and the like."

- Styles Makes Fights And Game (Peter Parker Remix)

Just as I was getting ready to hammer out my thoughts on the matter in a more expanded form, I ran accross this most excellent comment by fellow Manosphere blogger Brendan aka Novaseeker:
"I think what happens is that Game is like a Pandora’s box. Once it is opened, it can lead to various places.

The places it leads to depends on the guy — what he wants, what his background is, how vengeful he may be from his past dealings with women, what place he is “starting from” in terms of base level of physical attraction, moral restrictions and the like.

From my perspective I don’t think that using the Dark Side of Game is moral, in most cases, but I know why guys do it. For the most part it has to do with a pre-Game experience of a LOT of rejection and poor treatment by the same “general type” of woman he is Dark Siding after he learns Game. It’s a type of table-turning fueled by the negative experiences before learning Game. There aren’t that many Dark Siders who go an practice their Game on decent Church girls, really … mostly they’re going right back into the shark tank with the type of girls who wouldn’t give them the time of day, and pumping-and-dumping them. I can understand the logic and the emotion involved, even though I don’t agree with it morally.

I think, though, that it’s easy for women to underestimate the damage done to men who are rejected as betas routinely between say 16-25, while they are simultaneously seeing a small number of guys getting laid to beat the band. It causes quite a bit of damage, and can easily lead to a LOT of negative feelings about women. Some guys can overcome this, and some can’t. I generally advise younger guys who are facing this catastrophe to do everything they can to avoid becoming bitter about it, because building up that bitterness can tend to lead to the Dark Side. Learning Game is also pretty much mandatory for any guy who wants to do reasonably well in the market today, but the emotional mindset needs to be addressed as well, I think."

Indeed, it does - and this is what deeply concerned me yesterday as I read certain comments in response to my most recent "Discourses Upon The Game". It is fairly easy to fall to the Darkside, especially now that there are quite a few people around who actively teach it, such as Roissy and RosshV, to name but a few.

Learning the Seduction Arts is a powerful thing; it opens up a new world to a Man, even those who had experienced considerable success with Women (contrary to popular opinion, Game attracts not just guys who had little to no success with Women; in truth, it also attracts Men who want to do better with Women as well). It seems as if the Universe intentionally tempts you with more Women than you can handle, to see what you will do with your newfound abilities. It is so very important to have the proper mindset, lest you become seduced by the Darkside of the Game in the manner described above.

In most matters, I try to remain as morally neutral as possible because I have found that all too often, one's emotional state can and does cloud their judgment and ability to discern things in a clear and balanced way - but when it comes to the topic of today's lecture, I must be emphatic. I am focused on the Light, and anyone I teach Game to must also be focused on the Light as well. I practice Game for both my own AND the enjoyment of the Woman in my life. Such practitioners are interested in more than merely themselves; Darksiders and Sith types care only about themselves. Those who walk on the Light side of Game learn to have a great deal of respect and empathy for Women as a result of their study; those who walk on the Darkside foster contempt and utter hatred for Women. Those who practice "Jedi Game" never lie or engage in deceit in order to get in a Woman's pants; those who practice in "Sith Game" have no compunctions doing these and many, many other things in order to get what he wants. Those who walk in the Light are devoid of bitterness; those who walk in the Dark are awash in it.

The simple truth of the matter is, that there are quite a few of the latter practitioners of what they refer to as the Crimson Arts than they are like those of us here today - and like all such things in life, they can and will get the most facetime and ink. It is for this reason that we have to thank Neil "Style" Strauss for his memoir The Game - he is most definitely a Lightsider, shown by the fact that his book was an honest cautionary tale for all those who would seek to wield Game out there on the dating and mating market. He details his own temptations and how he dealt with them, some good, others bad. But ultimately he came away from the whole experience a better human being. That, ultimately, is what Game is all about.

And so, hopefully, are the rest of us.

My deepest thanks to Brendan for the assist in today's post.

Now adjourn your asses...

The Obsidian

14 comment(s).

Posted by Kunjungi website:

Thanks for your article
Sunday, July 7th 2013 @ 8:55 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

Hmm! Very interesting perspective, and one that I was only recently discussing with someone else offlist. Think I'll have to address this in due course...

Thanks for the inspiration!

Wednesday, May 18th 2011 @ 2:01 PM

Posted by VI:

I think of myself as using "gray" game. My morality is based on treating people as they deserve to be treated. I was never one to blindly follow the golden rule.
I definitely practiced dark game at first, using every woman I could for my pleasure, without any consideration for her feelings. I then adapted to using the moral code I had used in other aspects of my life, and only treated girls poorly when they treated me poorly. The end result was that I continued to treat most girls like shit, but it came from a different place. It wasn't based on anger or getting revenge, but rather, it was based on doing what I believed was right. If I met a nice girl, it would be reflected in how I treated her.
Wednesday, May 18th 2011 @ 1:57 PM

Posted by Me Want Honey Comb:

Both kinds of game are actually useful, but it's about the location and kind of women you're dealing with. If you're dealing with entitled princesses, hoodrats, and cholas, and if you live in status-driven places like NYC and DC, most of these chicks would respond best to, and to be blunt, are deserving of sith game. If you're dealing with country and SOME church girls and/or if you're in down to earth places like the Dakotas, most of Texas, or most foreign countries, then "light Game" would be better.

But to be honest, if "just being a man with balls and confidence" isn't enough and if you have to game a girl, she's not worthy of a LTR, much less marriage.
Monday, April 4th 2011 @ 2:33 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

...and Sith Game isn't amoral; it is tacitly immoral. Huge difference.

Game itself, is amoral, or rather I should say, the underpinnings of Game, which is Evo-Psych, is amoral. Game can be either moral or immoral depending upon the user.

Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 7:41 PM

Posted by Höllenhund:

"Allowing a Woman to determine your own actions" is the only type of amoral behavior you can think of? Isn't Sith Game also amoral behavior?
Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 7:36 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

Hey Man, thanks for sending along that YouTube piece. Might make a post out of that one...

Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 5:29 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

From what I've read of your account(s), no, I wouldn't say that you were practicing Dark Game. You were upfront about things with the young lady and she decided to proceed of her own free will. So long as you're upfront about your intentions with a Woman and you have informed them as to what they can expect of you and you hold to that, you've done your part and she cannot be mad with anyone other than herself if she doesn't like the outcome of things. Can't be any more fair than that.

Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 5:20 PM

Posted by Höllenhund:

Amoral behavior warrants amoral behavior, Obsidian.
Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 4:08 PM

Posted by Anonymous:

continued from previos post

The thing is I have not outright lied to her about anything except loving her, allow me to clarify I did love her when we started but she eroded that movie-like love feeling, I do love her still but more as caring for a friend (with benefits) than the “love” she wants, all while using Game to keep the upper hand and preveting falling into a dead end relationship again.

So to reiterate my question, have I fallen into Sith game or is it just my old beta thought patterns trying to guilt trip me? Thanks you for the time employed reading that wall of text and lending a hand.

*come to think of it wouldn’t all these be normal girl behavior?
**She gave me her virginity, even when I told her prior that even if she did I would not get back to her and she should not use that as a bargaining chip
*** I got back and broke up with her a total of 3 times, all due to her going back to her bad traits after a while of good behavior. last time this happened was last June
Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 12:19 PM

Posted by RookGamer:

Let me ask you a question, where is the line between Sith Game and Jedi Game? You said:

“Darksiders and Sith types care only about themselves. Those who walk on the Light side of Game learn to have a great deal of respect and empathy for Women as a result of their study; those who walk on the Darkside foster contempt and utter hatred for Women.”

The reason I ask this is because I have doubts if I have unknowingly fallen into Sith game, you see I have just recently (2 years) began to learn and use Game, I don’t consider myself an expert but I’ve taken the basics to improve myself in any way I can, and by God it has been an incredible feeling, never have I felt more empowered not just to the opposite sex but as a man.

Now my goal before and after learning of the existence of Game was to secure a LTR which I did with one with a woman that by prior analysis had everything I looked for in a LTR, problem was I learned of Game after the relationship had began and she had control, yes I was pretty much your regular beta, but with Game I took over and even came to realize that the woman in question had quite a deal of flaws that my beta behavior blinded me to.

After realizing that the relationship had not true LT prospects if she persisted on keeping her negative traits (selfishness, spoiled princess attitude, squandering money, never admitting mistakes and using sex as “compensation” or excuse instead of apologizing for her mistakes*) I decided to walk out. The thing is that after I walked out she has been more insisting than ever in getting back with me, something that I have taken for my benefit (I.E. shitons of sex**) by using game while never truly lying to her about not wanting to get back unless she changed all the negative traits that eroded the relationship time and time again*** .

The thing is I have not outright lied to her about anything except loving her, allow me to clarify I did love her when we started but she eroded that movie-like
Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 12:17 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

Hi Hollenhund,
So, it's OK to be immoral so long as everyone else is, right?

Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 9:02 AM

Posted by Höllenhund:

We can complain about Sith Game all day but the simple fact is this: women's sexual preferences are utterly devoid of moral considerations. The implication is that when these preferences are the only rules defining the SMP and separating men in groups of sexual/romantic winners and losers, all bets are off and morality is thrown out of the window.

Women and white knights complaining about Sith Game is like American officers complaining that the Taliban won't stand and fight in the open field. To them I'd say: sorry guys, your complaints are baseless. You got to define the rules, and your opponents adapted to them.
Sunday, April 3rd 2011 @ 5:53 AM

Posted by Mahoney (the keyboard warrior):


You really need to check out this dudes video. Its hilarious and tragic at the same time. It shows that there are blacks who are as insecure as the "marginalised white male". I really don't give a shit about that back and forth and am sick to death of the race issue. But I thought because you care so deeply about the race issue you'd be eager to help out one your brothers in need. That is my only agenda here, I love this young man because we both belong to sacred fraternty of losers with no game. I feel there is hope for him though, with the right guiding hand.

Saturday, April 2nd 2011 @ 5:06 PM