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Monday, August 19th 2013

10:11 AM

Roosh Says That "The Manosphere Is Lost" - And He Just Might Be Right

"The Manosphere, long ignored by the American media, will be "discovered" in 2013. Bet on it."
-Roosh, via Twitter, Dec 12, 2012

Less than a year after making the above earth-shattering prediction, RooshV, hands down one of the Manosphere's most prominent, if reluctant voices, has recently penned a post declaring that The Manosphere is Lost. Given my recent critique of the Manosphere in the wake of the Hugo Scandal, I'm inclined to agree with much of what he's said, and find the timing of our respective posts - within the same week - to be an interesting bit of kismet. 

First off, before I get into Roosh's newest/latest, let me say two things: this isn't the first time Roosh has gone in on the Manosphere; I can recall back in the days when In Mala Fide was still up and running that Roosh ripped the hella out of the 'sphere for what he rightly saw as a bunch of bitter and angry losers in life, in large part because of their utter failures in love with the ladies - and of course, his analysis then and now, was/is accurate. His most recent missive along these lines continues in that vein, this time adding in some other observations that, when you take a step back and think about it within the context of my own recent take on the Hugo issue, actually makes a heck of a lot of sense: Men can and will do whatever it takes to gain the sexual favor of the ladies, fullstop. I'll make that clear in posting up a few choice quotes of Roosh's, but before I do that, let me saysomething else:

I've always had mad respect for Roosh, and perhaps not for the reasons some might expect; it's not his Game knowledge or experience that I most admire about him. To be frank, I don't find it all that insightful (though he does make some good points, especially from the more sociosexual perspective), and have found myself disagreeing with many of his takes on things as well as his actions; rather, it's his get-up-and-go, his Hustle-and-Flow, his take-the-bull-by-the-horns approach and attitude towards life, that I admire about him. Sure, he's a college educated, middle-class de facto White Guy, with all the ostensible privilege and bennies that theoretically come with it far as American life goes, but the fact remains that he stands as one of the Manosphere's major, and few, successes, monetarily and otherwise, because he made like Nike and Just Did It. Instead of moaning and whining about how unfair 21st century, postmodern life in the Western world was to regular palookas like him, he got off his butt and made things happen for himself: he quite his deadend job, he started up a blog, he wrote about his dating experiences, first in DC and then worldwide; he wrote, edited, published and marketed books and sold them; he founded bigger and better websites, and inspired other Men to join his cause. While other Men in the 'sphere were bitching about how bad American Women were, Roosh actually went out of the country to see for himself what other countries had to offer him in the way of the local talent. And then, he wrote about his experiences with said talent, which, personally, is one of the main reasons why I read Roosh, even if I have no intention or interest of going where he's been. In short, I admire Roosh, because he's a DOER, an exemplar of what the Manosphere can be, in its best light - while so many Men in the Manosphere, for all the Sound and Fury, simply are NOT. 

And that's why I think what he recently said on his personal blog about how and why he thinks the Manosphere is Lost, is SPOT ON - because if anyone in said 'sphere can talk smack, he can. 

Let's review a bit of what he's said, shall we?

"Take a look at the word hypergamy. Psychological studies now show that a man’s use of this word is highly correlated to not getting laid. And yes, the ability of a man to lay a woman is, for better or worse, a reliable indicator of his value. If you don’t agree with that then I think we all know why. The guys who have a tendency to use manosphere jargon are socially awkward in real life, similar to how PUAs of the previous decade who used acronyms like DDBL and FMAC didn’t actually know how to pick up. If a man doesn’t get laid, or doesn’t at least put in sustained effort, he has no business complaining about women on the internet. Bitterness is not a substitute for experience."

Hello!-and come on, does anyone who's spent any length of time in the 'sphere, really disagree with what the Man just said? I've been saying for years now, that the Manosphere ain't about DOING anything; it's about a place for Men - and let's not mince words here, White Men Who Ain't Hawt - to lament, to bemoan how errbody in the world is just picking on them, about how Wimminz and "the Blacks" and so forth are pissing in their Cheerios. It was never about self-improvement or even self-reflection; it was about attempting to put rationalization-for-personal-failure lipstick on a hateration pig, and I for one am pleased as punch that somebody in the 'sphere of Roosh's stature has the balls to call a spade a spade.

Here's another homerun of a quote:

"The flood of these beta males, who have never approached a woman in their lives, coincided with the arrival of women. It’s known that women try to poison places where men congregate, but trailing them was a long line of beta males and white knights who are desperate for their attention. It becomes a feedback loop where the arrival of women encourages more weak men to follow which then encourages even more women to come. Instead of keeping them out, some manosphere veterans are welcoming them with open arms. There is a large subset of men who now participate in the sphere primarily to get female commenter attention. It’s pathetic. The manosphere used to be full of Biggies and Tupacs—now everyone is tripping over themselves to be Drake, blogging and commenting in the hopes they may get laid. (I apologize in advance to the large number of neo-Nazis in the manosphere for comparing them to a man of non-Aryan race.) It’s hard for me to accept that the manosphere is well on its way to becoming a match.com for old people who hate blacks."

Booyah. Kudos to the R-Man for finally saying what we've all known for a good long minute: that racism in the 'sphere isn't jut endemic, its rife; it's shot through; it's drenched with it. 

My ONLY critique of Roosh is that he didn't take his own far enough - so here, let me help the brother out:

"As a denizen of some years -albeit one who’s a bit “once removed” ironically for reasons Prof. Hugo is finding himself even further under the gun for presently – of the Manosphere, I can vouch for what he’s saying along these lines. Look, it’s time to face facts: a tremendous amount of the Sturm und Drang that can be heard daily in Manosphere venues, is thinly veiled Sour Grapes over the fact that Women (or a certain *type* of Woman) doesn’t find those who howl the loudest attractive – that they have the ability and power and right to say “N*gga, please” and it makes these guys spittin’ mad. In fact, even in those venues where the ostensible goal is to discuss and learn Pickup, you can and will see far and away MORE comments filled with vitriol directed toward Women (as well as racist invective) than detailed discussions on self-improvement of one’s looks, fashion sense or behaviors. Please don’t take my word for it, go and see for yourself: for many in the Manosphere, “Chateau Heartiste”, formerly known as Roissy, is the Manosphere’s go-to source for Red Pill Game and Pickup knowledge - yet, on any given day, you can and will find more commenting and discussion dogging Women and/or non-White people out, than you will about self-improvement. Anyone who knows anything about the Manosphere, knows what I’m saying is true – and which goes to explain at least in part, how and why the Manosphere writ large, continues to be seen as a gaggle of disaffected White Guy(TM) losers, frothing at the mouth in their mama’s basements."

As I make clear in the ensuing comments in the (still ongoing! Go check it out!) thread, so long as we in the 'sphere don't call out Roissy/Heartiste and other major voices like him, in the name of his supposedly "keeping it real" and/or because his Game/Red Pill knowledge is just supposedly so very important, the 'sphere will continue to be rightly seen as a bunch of Bitter & Angry White Guys who have nothing going for them - and who wants to be a member of that club, other than, well, Bitter & Angry White Guys who have nothing going for them? If Roosh were to call Roissy/Heartiste out, it just might start a much needed convo in the 'sphere about what the Hades we're doing versus what we're claiming to do - which Roosh himself does speak to here:

"At its peak, the non-MRA portion of the manosphere excelled at teaching men how to get laid while laying down Chris Brown-style pimp slaps on feminists. It was great: guys were simultaneously sharing important knowledge and making the world a better place. I’ve happily met over 200 of my readers by now, but I wouldn’t dare meet a lot of these fat old dudes who are the fastest growing segment of the manosphere today. It’s one thing to complain about having to work hard to improve your station, but it’s another thing to complain while hoping to bang a female manosphere commenter who is a 4 on her best day. The worst part of it is that guys are drooling over old manosphere women who are already married. I don’t associate with these people in real life, so why would I do so online?"

Again, no argument there Roosh, but you missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity - you could have really took aim as to the major reason WHY the non-MRA portion of the 'sphere fell off - again, here let me help you - it's because Roissy/Heartiste and the rest of the "Alt-Rightsphere" jumped the rails a long way back and got stuck on Misogyny & Racism Stupid, that's why. What you, Roosh my Man, note above, is just ancillary to what I'm noting and pointing out above - and someone like YOU, needs to make that plainly, brutally clear to errbody - just like you make the truth plainly, brutally clear to Women as to how and why they're in the pickle they're in today. Simply put, we gotta stop coddling and making excuses for dudes like Roissy/Heartise, chief. For real, though. 

Nevertheless, and what I've said above notwithstanding, Roosh winds up his latest State of the Manosphere Address in grand fashion, and I for one could not have said it better myself; I quote:

"Don’t read the writings of men who don’t get laid. If a man can’t solve the challenge of getting his dick wet, he’s a poseur and internet warrior. He’s a bloviator, a troll. Don’t read the writings of men who don’t know how to walk up to a woman and start a conversation. Don’t read the writings of men who lavish attention on female commenters, because if he was getting laid in real life, he wouldn’t even notice them. Game is an obligatory pursuit for the Western man in 2013, and if he is not pursuing it, he’s not someone worth listening to. He’s weak and scared. He needs to talk to women instead of spending hours a day nurturing his beloved manosphere personality. His world view, contaminated by a lack of female intimacy, will lead you down the wrong path."

Amen, brother. A-freaking-men. 

People in the 'sphere need to stop fakin' the funk and need to recognize something: the only portion of the 'sphere that's actually getting traction, on its own terms, and actually assisting Men with getting better in their lives, is the Game/Pickup sector(s) of it - and will continue to do so, so long as we chin check knuckleheads like Roissy/Heartiste. No dis to my MGTOW brethren, or my MRA homies - they make some good points that I for one can get on board with - but the simple truth of the matter is that they have failed to be able to organize themselves to actually get anything done, and every single time someone points this out to them, they go into full-on denial and rationalization mode to explain away how and why doing such commonsensical things are not what they're about. There's a word for such a stance, fellas. 

And that, along with the Roissy Problem, is what's holding the 'sphere back - among other things. 

Thanks for laying the smack down, Roosh! You go, boy. 

Now adjourn your arses...

The Obsidian
11 comment(s).

Posted by Fixer35:

True to a point, like the Chinese hound sitting on it's own nuts and howling about it, that is a large part of the manosphere's content, along with a lot of Beta=Keyboard Alphas.

As with most problems, the solution lays within, not without.
Monday, August 19th 2013 @ 12:51 PM

Posted by B.P.:

Now you're breaking it all the way down, O. The next step is to give up on trying to reform the manosphere as a whole: misogyny and racism seem integral to its motivations.

With the likes of you, Roosh, and, hopefully, your JFG comrades (there's also Rollo, whose site, unlike Dalrock's, hardly attracts racist nonsense), a more enlightened and productive offshoot might come to the fore. Maybe a new moniker is in order: the "alphasphere," for men who are getting it or truly aspiring to, rather than venting and scapegoating.
Monday, August 19th 2013 @ 2:10 PM

Posted by Huff Po-ing Up Smart:

Susan's back on Huff Po Live. Looks like she's going to be a regular on their panel of go-to sexperts;
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2013/08/19/hookinguprealities/what-hookup-culture/
Monday, August 19th 2013 @ 8:53 PM

Posted by Man-o-Fear:

http://manboobz.com/2013/08/09/no-youre-the-anti-woman-slur-a-manosphere-debate/
Monday, August 19th 2013 @ 10:29 PM

Posted by EAN:

I disagree.

However illogical or counterproductive, this anger and tribalism is part and parcel of masculinity. Maybe not for you or I, but it is for a lot of guys. Forcing it out would result in a slippery slope down to a sterile and politically censored environment, no different than any mainstream feminist forum. Complaining about being offended and quarreling over what speech should be acceptable is precisely what plagues mainstream discourse. In other words, there would be no manosphere without the brutally honest straighttalk.

White guys make up the majority of English speaking internet, straight white men are usually the first villain feminists invoke, so their resentment is not surprising to me. Roissy's blog seem to be more about lamenting the decline of the West than it is about hating non-whites, although there are certainly commenters there who cross into senseless racism.

Like I said on RoK, the realistic solution is mutual distance and mutual respect, not the complete purging of tribalism. And to this purpose, Roosh has actually done very well. He will ban the commenters who are needlessly racist, but he will permit race-related comments that may be offensive/incorrect, but at least have some sort of point to make. It's a good balance.
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