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Thursday, August 8th 2013

8:23 AM

Susan Walsh Of Hooking Up Smart Appears On HuffPo Live: Can One Night Stands Turn Into Relationships?

Not sure if you heard, but apparently HUS has finally made the bigtime; I invite my readers to view the video and register their comments. 

In the meantime, I also offer the following thoughts and observations by yours truly, which is an email I sent to my JFG brothers in arms this morning on the matter; again, comment and reply, invited:

"HUS On HuffPo Live: Why Should I Care?

6:29 AM 8/8/2013 Thu

Good morning fellas,
Just seeing this. The following are my initial gut reactions:

1. Consider the panel - with the exception of one (who is Asian, hence Honrary White - note the surname, "Ong Zimmerman"), all of them are White and all of them are UMC. How and why should I, a Brotha from inner city America, who never attended college and is from working class roots, who worked in the Trades and is a union card carrier, care? How does what ANY of them said, have to do with me or my experiences? Do they even know what those experiences are? Do they even care? How do I fit into that discussion, or do I even rate in their minds? Please think on that for a moment.

2. Much of what was said by the panel has validated just about everything Prof. David Buss has said in his books. For example, Rick Santos, the lone guy on the panel, explains how he crashed and burned attempting to use what Buss and others call the Satellite Strategy - basically, the "Friend" strategy. This is often one of the preferred methods for Mate Poaching, and while Santos got the bang, he failed to woo away the chick from her guy - hence, why I have never advocated such things for guys, due to their high failure rate. On top of that, and to answer the leading question of the segment, of course a ONS can be converted into a LTR - but that is dependent on some other variables in the mix, which was something none of the panelists discussed, Ms. Walsh first and foremost among them I might add (which is hugely important, considering that she had the most facetime of any of the four panelists, taking up roughly a third of the 23 minutes that the segment lasted - some could speculate about the nature of her personality on that one...hmm...). As Buss notes, and again for another example, Women have been known to use short term mating as a strategy to parlay it into a LTR, much as Ms. Walsh has done; I've discussed this at some length over at JFG: "Seven Reasons Why Women Hookup".

3. I agree with all of your assessment, Ms. Walsh is definitely angling for taking HUS to the bigtime. Having said that, I don't knock her hustle one little bit; after all, she isn't doing anything more or less than all the other relationship expert hustlers have or are doing. More power to her. 

4. Having said that, my personal position is, to quote Chuck D of Public Enemy,  "I don't rhyme for the sake of riddlin'" - I have less-than-zero interest in "going mainstream", or in "entertainment" (and make no mistake, what we just saw there on HuffPo is defintely entertainment). I have different motivations as to why I do this blogging thing. 

5. Ms. Walsh's story of how she got with Mr. HUS is most interesting indeed; quite the contrary of everything I've ever known her to write over the past four years or so I've known of her. Interesting. 

6. As I've said before, the single biggest problem facing Ms. Walsh and her "mission", is that she's attempting to peddle a cure in search of a disease. As Lisa Wade, whom Ms. Walsh herself considers among if not thee utmost authority on the hookup issue has said recently in a piece at Slate, the hookup scene on campus is really the White, Wealthy and Hawt scene - and if you're a member of Ms. Walsh's target demo and haven't figured out that you don't fall into those three distinct catergories, you've got a much bigger problem than merely trying to get a boyfriend. Per Wade's piece, we know - KNOW - that POC and Whites of more modest means ARE NOT hooking up. So, that blows a big fat hole in Ms. Walsh's Pluralistic Ignorance theory, doesn't it? Moreover, the real problem Ms. Walsh has, and Hollenhund has spoken to this recently over at Rollo's, her core female audience is made up of homely gals. And instead of directly addressing this, in much the same way PUA coaches dress down dweeby dudes at Game bootcamps, Ms. Walsh instead attempts to put lipstick on a pig. Yea, good luck with that, Ms. Walsh. 

On top of all that, as Tracy Clark Flory's recent engagement announcement has made clear, you can hookup like mad, and even write about it(!), and it won't hurt you, you'll still be able to get your Chad, IF you're White, Wealthy and Hawt. So again, this presents some interesting problems for Ms. Walsh and her "mission" when you really get down to it, don't it? Having said that, and again, why should I give a damn in any event? Afterall, none of those people on the panel give a damn about me or mine. *shrug*

As the late great Malcolm X once famously said, of all our studies, history is best qualified to reward our research. The story of HUS will be borne out in terms of history - either it will be vindicated by it, or it will be eviscerated by it. 

I've emptied my revolver on this one - and when I fire my revolver, I never miss. 
                
Holla back...

O."
66 comment(s).

Posted by Rollo Tomassi:

If by "made it big time" you mean HuffPo live, then George from 3rd Millennium Man beat her to it long before her:

http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/02/its-their-game/

A lot of manosphere commenters ran me up the flagpole for that post, looks a bit different now that Aunt Giggles is fronting for the manosphere doesn't it?

She's been prepping her site for this by killing the commenting, and this came after her redesign and increasing her commercialization. By the looks of it she's got a new advertising deal, she knew the HuffPo interview was coming, and she couldn't afford to have all the new traffic to her site from it sift through all of the red pill commenters taking her to the woodshed – especially since her ONS success story about her husband is so glaringly contradictory to everything she's ever posted about ONS's.

I'm sure this shocks no one familiar with HUS, but Aunt Giggles will gladly sell herself out.
Thursday, August 8th 2013 @ 11:54 AM

Posted by Obsidian:

@Rollo:
Hey, what up Man? Longtime no hear, glad to see you making moves.

Not a lot to disagree with you here, chief - like I said, I ain't gonna knock Ms. Walsh's hustle. It's just kinda sad that it all went down the way it did, especially more recently. But, like I said above, I was never a part of her calcs, and neither was much of the Red Pill-sphere.

It is, what it is.

As for George/3rd Millennium, yea, I recall reading Ms. Walsh's take on what went down on HuffPo surrounding that, her attempting to argue that the guys in question would never go mainstream due to their various practices, like not using their real names and so forth - all the while, ignoring all kinds of evidence that Game has been mainstream for quite some time now, one, and two, that many guys in the sphere have no desire to go mainstream. I for one, am most definitely among them.

At any rate, and as I've said above, Ms. Walsh has some significant problems to address if she hopes to gain any real traction. Now that she's arrived, we'll see if her arguments will sink or swim...

O.
Thursday, August 8th 2013 @ 12:38 PM

Posted by HanSolo:

A couple of points in response.

1) Rich Santos isn't racially white. He's ethnically latino, and racially looks like a mix of white and native American, but probably more white than native.

6) The statement that "that POC and Whites of more modest means ARE NOT hooking up" is not what Wade is saying and is not true. Rather, she says that, "Only 14 percent of students hookup more than 10 times in four years and these students are more likely than others to be white, wealthy, heterosexual, able-bodied, and conventionally attractive." So, she just says that this group is more likely, not that people of other groups don't do it. Also, when she says "heterosexual" is one of the defining traits of hooking up frequently that sets off my BS alert at 140 dB because we know that homosexual men hook up way more frequently than straight men. And even some studies suggest that lesbians have more sex partners than straight women, though it's a less-studied phenomenon.

Also, remember the study I cited in my post on Women are Fucking Hotter Men. The % of women claiming to be in sex-only relationships (or FB or FWB and included as part of what Wade defines hooking up) was pretty flat across looks, except with the unattractive doing it even more. So perhaps on campus the heavy-hooker uppers are better looking but when looked at across the general population we can see that every category of looks is about equally involved. And the white part would only apply to college students hooking up more because we know that amongst the non-college population that blacks are hooking up or having casual sex (whatever you want to call it) at equal or higher rates than other races.

One of the comments at the Wade article said that they attended a black college and there was a lot of hooking up there. So perhaps the POC are hooking up less when they go to non-black colleges but do it more when at black colleges.
Thursday, August 8th 2013 @ 12:59 PM

Posted by Obsidian:

Han,
Given that the LGBT community in the USA isn't particularly large - well under 10% - it would make sense that not a heck of a lot of focus would go there in terms of these kinds of studies. Moreover, and even Ms. Walsh agrees, POC students and Whites of lower economic status simply do not hookup like that. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all, but that the point Wade is making is largely accurate - that the hookup culture, such as it has been defined up to this point, is pretty much a White, Wealthy and Hawt "problem".

As for Santos, he's a Blanco, with all the privileges and goodies that come with it in American life.

Again: how and why should I care, given my particular background? When has there EVER been a discussion about the love lives of Brothas like me? On the relatively rare chances that such things are discussed as it relates to Brothas like myself, its usually in the form of finger wagging, ie, "deadbeat daddies" and the like.

Like I said, I have differeing motivations for blogging, one of them to provide insight and information to other Brothas like myself, because at the end of the day there is no one out there looking out for me and mine. And so, like much of everything else in my life, I will have to get the job done myself.

That, at least in part, is why I write.

O.
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